Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith: Finding Emotional Balance as a Creative

Our interview of Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith for “The Creative Influencer” podcast is available today for download on iTunes, Spotify, and premier platforms everywhere.

Dr. Smith has a doctorate in film and audience research focused on—of all things!—Quentin Tarantino's fan base and their emotional responses to his films.

Dr. Smith is passionate about mental health in the entertainment industry and has integrated it into her work with clients and staff. She aims to promote the importance of mental health and self-care in the high-pressure and competitive world of the creative industries.

It’s hard to believe, but this interview is more fun than watching Pulp Fiction. Now don’t just take our word for it…

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A transcript of the episode follows:

Jon Pfeiffer:
I'm joined today by Dr. Rebekah Smith. Welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Hello, how are you?

Jon Pfeiffer:
I'm good. And how are you?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
I'm good, thank you.

Jon Pfeiffer:
You are a published author.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes.

Jon Pfeiffer:
A couple books. You are an award-winning film distribution consultant.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yep.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And you are one of the world's leading film festival strategists, and we'll get to all of that. I also want to talk to you, one of the things you speak about is mental health for creators and people in the film business and just in the entertainment business in general.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Okay. But first, we were talking before we started the recording about your doctorate.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So your doctorate is in what topic?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
It's on film and audience research.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Which means what?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Which is an area of academia that looks into how real spectators and film viewers respond to films, emotionally and intellectually, and in a way which is showing how real people respond to film.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And for those who are watching this podcast, they'll be able to guess what film genre you studied. What was your particular focus?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
So my PhD was focused upon Quentin Tarantino. You can tell in the background, Pulp Fiction, the favorite film. So my PhD looked at Quentin Tarantino's fan base. His fan base I chose because I'm a big fan of him, but also his fan base are very passionate about his films, especially his male fan base. And what I found out in that research when analyzing his fans' emotional responses to his most recent film at the time when I wrote it, which was the Grindhouse and Death Proof double bill, that Tarantino's dialogue that connects them emotionally to him and his characters and creates that fandom.
With women, it's not as really the same. They like the women and they're kick-ass women and they think he's cool, but it's not as deep or as detailed in depth as it is in men. And a lot of men dominate his fan base in the US and UK where I did the study. So it's really interesting to see and compare it against the theories of film emotion were not like this at all. So it did give a lot of insight into how fans respond to a director that's known as an auteur.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Now is it published? It's obviously published, but if I as a member of the public wanted to read a copy, where could I go?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
You'd have to go to the BFI film library in London and also the National Film Library in Wales, so I have to go across the pond. I'm based in Texas, we have to go across the pond and get it. But it's there. They do want me to maybe do it into a book film, but I got caught up with my company when it began, so I didn't have the time to do both.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So where are you from originally?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
The UK, from Worcestershire, United Kingdom.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And then how long have you been in the United States?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
I moved here permanently in August 2021.

Jon Pfeiffer:
What town?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
I live in Dallas, Texas.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Dallas. How do you like it?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
I love it. I love it here. It's crazy weather. We do have some insane weather, but it's part of Texas and it's quite fun. But I love it, it's a very hospitable state and I really like it here. You probably hear the thunder then, but we just have some random bouts of sunshine and then thunder, but no, it's great. It's really lovely.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So I wanted to talk to you about mental health and the arts and entertainment scene.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yeah.

Jon Pfeiffer:
You've developed an interest in that. Traditionally, it was a taboo topic to talk about your mental health.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes.

Jon Pfeiffer:
But that's changing. Why do you think it's changing?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
I think it changed a lot during the pandemic when it began in 2020, because I think people realized how important having wellbeing and mental health is when you're in that situation you're forced into and that you've really got to take care of you. Not just if you're ill, but just generally mentally and physically to get through something that has never happened since, what, 1918? The first pandemic, I feel like, when it was two years, I think it was in the wartime. There's a life changing event and the whole world changed, and you need to be prepared to get through it because it's a lot on the body. I think that became more prevalent during then.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And then I'm going to ask you a question about how you feel about how you feel. Do you feel that it's more mainstream for people to talk about it now?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
I do actually, yes. I think people are now starting to be more vocal about it on Instagram, Instagram stories, reels, and there's more people following mental health platforms. A lot of, actually, entrepreneurs during the pandemic or maybe towards the end of it, started to launch platforms about mental health and how to look after yourself more carefully now, and found new avenues to approach it differently and more creatively.

Jon Pfeiffer:
We'll drill down on this, but in general, what advice would you give to creatives on balancing artistic endeavors and their own mental health?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
I think the most important thing is to separate the film, whether it be a music video or narrative or documentary, whatever the product is in my client's case, separate it from yourself, and see it as a product, and that it's not attached to you emotionally. The more emotion you have attached to your film or your music video, whatever it's going to be, or your screenplay, the worse you'll become on the journey if you can't separate the two. You'll blur into one and won't know which one is where you stand and where the other one stands. And if you separate it, you can process things differently. If it's still attached to you and inside of you, it'll become a very blurring and traumatic process.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And how does one start to go about doing that? Intellectually, yeah, sure, just separate. But emotionally, how do you-

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Easier said than done. Good point. Well, what I say to clients of mine is to say, "Right, when you're making the film or the music video, whatever it's going to be, or the short film, feature film, whatever it is. The product, when you're making the product, that's the fun part, obviously you're immersed in it and you're making it. But then when it's finished in the edit suite, it changes, it becomes a product." And you then have to see it as you are selling it to the correct audience, to film festivals, to sales agents, distribution companies, Netflix, whatever it might be. And they're going to look at it very differently, they're not interested in all the blood, sweat and tears that went into making a film. And every film, what equated piece you're going to make, is hard to make, it's not going to be a straightforward process or be all linear.
There's going to be problems going to be challenges. It's going to break you probably and make you learn a lot of stuff, but it's going to be a good learning curve. But then that's all happened. Now it's a different kind of environment and market that you're going to be in, and it's important that you see it as a separate thing. That it's not your baby anymore. The baby's grown up and it's now a fully grown adult and now it's going to be treated into the real hardcore world, the real world, of distribution and audience response. And you have to take criticism as a way that it's not directed to you, it's just a critique, which is to help you on the journey and give you feedback, not failure.

Jon Pfeiffer:
I agree with what you're saying. The pause was that that is, again, easier said than done, because from the time a creator starts as a little boy or a little girl, they've always associated their wellbeing and their value with their product.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And it's parents, myself included, that are to blame on that start of the path, but it's just very hard.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
It is. And it's a good point.

Jon Pfeiffer:
It receives criticism. What tools can they use to realize that they're talking about the product as opposed to the core of the person?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
So what I found was really helpful for some clients of mine, some of them had been working on a film and written it and rewrote and made all this effort to get it all together for 10 or 15 years or more. Some are very long in development, getting the funds, all that kind of thing. So what I told them is that, "Okay, this has been a long journey, but it's finally finished and you have the film, but now look into research." I'll give you some books, the business of film. Now do the research into that and how it's different to making the film, how the perceptions are different and how the general consensus is pretty different. So that might help you understand what's going to be ahead of you and how these people watch films and how they engage with them.
They're not going to be passionately attached to it, they're thinking about how to make money. So if you look at the business of film and the art of the film business and sales distribution, read the books I suggested, that can help to detach. And then maybe when you make your next film, if this film is not commercial enough or this film is not sellable enough for whatever reason, then that way the toolbox to make it more commercial film that you might not be as passionate about, but then maybe you can get the money made, but you could still bring in your creativity of course.
But you'll just know how it works in a different way. Because obviously in film schools and when you're learning to make a movie, it's all making it, and you want to tell a story and you are excited about that story, why wouldn't you be? Especially with a short and a feature. But look to the business side, so start being more practical, hands-on, do research on the books and online, and then do research with your peers and see what their experiences have been and how they felt supported. And if they didn't, then learn from those things, it's really important. I'd bring in stuff as well. I always think bringing in meditation's important for anybody in any industry, creativeness when it's a lot of high pressure. They're important toolboxes too to meditate and stay grounded because what they might read is not what they might want to hear.

Jon Pfeiffer:
No, that's very good advice. It's very good advice. It's a completely different mindset. It's just a completely different mindset.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Exactly.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Say the person, the creator has been able to do that. Has been able to separate the emotions, attaching it as, "If they like this, they like me," versus, "This is a product." Say you've been able to do that. What about the criticism or dealing with rejection if it is they're rejecting the filmmaker or they're rejecting the creator? So it is a personal rejection. How do you help work with that?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
So that's a good point because some people might just don't like that vision or it didn't resonate with me, "I don't really like that approach," which is fair enough, it happens. So when that occurs, I say to the filmmaker, "Remember, they're still not talking about you as a person, it's your craft and your creativity. And maybe it tells us feedback, it's acquired taste or it's for a different market. There's going to be somebody who will click with that." Everyone doesn't like everything. For example, I'm not the biggest fan of Marvel films, but everyone else around me loves them. So not all people are fans of that, because that's a very different aesthetic. But you'll find that there is something good in every single film, there's something talkative or something good about what's in it. And it's just going to be not for everybody. But remember, it's never a personal attack on you. This is about work and creativity and how you approach things. Never take it personally to thinking it's an attack on you and you as a person.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Having worked with your clients in this space, even though you're not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but you still are, in many ways, you're a counselor. Where do you see this going? Where do you see the future of the mental health for creatives going?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
I want it to be more integrated into the world of creative industries. I think it's really important. And I already integrated it into my work with my clients and also my staff. I think it's going to go in that direction. I want my book to keep helping people doing that and what I do. But I think it's really important. I can see a shift happening since probably about 2020, but I feel now it's becoming really important that mental health and looking after yourself in this kind of industry that's extremely high pressure and competitive, because sometimes imposter syndrome and comparison theory also creeps in, which is very important not to get sucked into because that can-

Jon Pfeiffer:
Let me stop you there and I want to talk about the imposter syndrome.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Those few people who don't know, but what is the imposter syndrome?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Imposter syndrome is there's a feeling where you are really good at what you do and you have talent, but then for some reason you doubt yourself that you're not good enough and that the work isn't up to standard or, for example, you just feel inferior to other people or that you don't deserve that praise. So it's a very personal thing, or that acclaim. And that can actually go on a downward spiral of depression, I've seen go on with creatives in the past too.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And how does one get past that to realize your own worth?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yeah. That is one I found personally and with clients that when imposter syndrome pops up, which it can do, I know that somebody from One Direction had it, and all got it on a stage or there was a time where you had to take a break. A lot of it can come from childhood traumas or either growing up in the family or bullying at schools or just younger experiences can come up. So it's important I think to actually at that point speak with a therapist who's either trained in EMDR therapy or CBT to train the brain to think differently and to see yourself for you and to love yourself, because that comes up too. And to stay grounded that you are the creative of that work, you're the author, and you deserve that praise. And not to let those previous experiences come out to haunt you because it could just mean there's more healing to do.

Jon Pfeiffer:
I want to shift gears. I want to get to your primary day job, and that is film festival strategies.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Tell us first just about film festivals. Actually I'll let you do that and then I'll jump in with the next question.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
So film festivals are brilliant events. There's loads of them around the world. There's a lot of festivals that take place. There's pretty much one in every city. And what they are is they're events where people discover new talent or the new work from a big director, if it's something like at Sundance you see all the new films from the top directors who are making waves, Oscar winners, et cetera. You also discover new independent film talent and you can discover that via short films, feature films, fiction, nonfiction, music videos, and VR, and episodic content and web series. There's a lot of stuff that takes place at film festivals.
They're also now starting to move into gaming and immersive VR and un-produced screenplays also have a place too to find new writers. So there's a lot of stuff available at film festivals to get stuck into, but also to discover, and that's what they're about, primarily. Discovering for audiences, new filmmaking talent, new visions, new voices, and in terms of filmmakers, connecting with other people who are equally talented to connect with and build relationships with and get their films seen around the world and great exposure.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And you help filmmakers develop a strategy for the film festival, that's correct?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Correct.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Okay. How did you go about that? I saw one of the checklists that you have, it says self-evaluation checklist of your film. And the first question is, "Is it good enough?"

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yeah.

Jon Pfeiffer:
It's a really hard question to answer, I'm sure, for many creators, and a really important question.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So let's say you've passed that first threshold, it's good enough, it should keep going. How do you develop a strategy? What do you do?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
So when you read the film and think, "Okay, well yes it is good enough," you said it's past the first round, the way to create a strategy is to streamline and focus. So in other words, what I mean by that, is when we've seen the film, we think, "Right, okay, it can do these kinds of festivals and this level in tier." But it's important that the filmmaker is in alignment with this and their goal is in alignment with the strength of the film. So if a filmmaker says, "Right, I've made this short and I want to get it onto the circuit and just do the Oscar, BAFTA qualified film festivals, I want to get down that road." Then we have to think, "Well how strong enough is it for those kinds of festivals?" Well, they want this kind of product. If it's a yes, then we'll obviously include those festivals. And if it's not, we'll include festivals that won't be like those, but will still be very good and still get the right exposure to help them, a stepping stone to make more films that will be of a high quality.
So it's a very rigorous assessment. It's looking at the film, different angles, and figuring out what kinds of festivals would like that kind of product. And that takes a bit of time because it's taking into account the festival's audience, or audiences, more like plural. The personal programmer taste plays a big role because personal programmer taste is a big one because some programmers do base their choices on what they like to program. We also have to think about if it's the kind of quality that that level and tier festival likes. And finally, what goes into it is, is it the kind of film that would be able to travel? So is it too local? Is it best to keep it just to the US or just the West Coast or just to South Africa, or can it travel? Can the story travel, and will it appeal to festivals in these other parts with its topic and its theme and its execution? It's quite a few things to take into account. That's why it takes a bit of time. That's maybe the nutshell of it all.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And then let's say you're not involved, it's just a filmmaker submitting applications without doing the kind of analysis that you would help him or her do. What percent get into film festivals?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
It's low because you need a strategy. If you don't know how the festival circuit works and you're new to it, doing the spray and pray if you might want to call it and just hoping for the best can waste a lot of money. And normally what they can do with that approach is they aim very high and also they do what we call general festivals. So say it's a short film and they go into all the big festivals which are not specific to say short films, like example, the Nashville Film Festival, the New Orleans Film Festival for example. Those festivals do screen short films, but they don't have as many slots as a short film festival would. So they just go all the big top tiers and just, "This one will be good, this one will be good," and it gets nowhere or it gets very little because it's not focused on if the festival's going to want this kind of thing for their audience, for their demographic, and for the area of the world or the US where it takes place in. So it can end up wasting thousands in submission fees.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Which I know for my clients it can be very expensive.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes, it can be. Especially if you do a late deadline and it can be last minute, it can be very expensive.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And then when clients work with you and help with the focused approach that you've talked about, obviously you can't guarantee it's going to get in.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Correct.

Jon Pfeiffer:
How much have their odds improved?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
So although obviously, you're right, we can't guarantee, but because it's so specific and it's so streamlined, they're going to get some kind of result. We don't know where and when that will happen, but it always does occur because it's a very targeted approach. And it's based upon, as I say, those key elements. But also it's focused upon knowing what that festival tends to look for because we always keep on top of the festivals that we work with. We work with loads of them, that's why it's a full-time job. Knowing what their latest trends are, what their focus is, and if it would work for them. And for us, it's time-consuming but also isn't because we're used to doing it so we get in the hang of it quickly. And that's why it takes a lot of time because it's a full-time job. But we know, and then we think, "Right, it's going to be a gem here," and it gets in because the film is strong enough for that level of quality of festival.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So completely shifting gears, I talked about at the top that you were a published author.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yep.

Jon Pfeiffer:
One of your books is an ebook that you can get on your website is a download, which I did last night.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Oh, great.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Which is how I got the checklist question evaluations.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes. Very impressive.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So your newest book is Born to Do It: Becoming the Leader of a Business Niche Using Powerful Spiritual Techniques.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes. So that one was actually-

Jon Pfeiffer:
Tell me about that.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yeah, that was published in 2020. The latest ebook is Film Festivals & Looking After Your Mental Health, but that the one that was published by Butterfly House in 2020. And it was good timing because I got this inspiration to write and I got asked to write that book because I wanted to talk more about integrating into a business routine and the business standard practices, the formal things, spirituality, and how that can make the process not just more fun, but more rewarding and knowing how it works behind the scenes with the universe and all that kind of stuff. Putting it into the business infrastructure that can tend to be dry and formal and make it right. Positive thinking and manifestations, all these kinds of things are really important to be in a business routine, especially when you're in the creative industry, because it's important to stay grounded and to know what you want and put it out there.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And I don't know where I read it, you talked about vision boards too.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Yes, that's true.

Jon Pfeiffer:
How do they work for you? What's your version of the vision board?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
So when I was growing up, it was a thing that people used to see as maybe being fun. But then as I began to learn more about vision boards from the experts like Jack Canfield and Marie Diamond, I was seeing how they are actually a very important wellbeing tool, but also a powerful tool for the workplace, not just for personal life. So I remember in the beginning people were saying, "Oh, put a vision board together of all your dreams and your wishes," but obviously in those dreams and wishes, there'll be career stuff in there too.
So what I started to do was put together vision boards for each product that we worked on and help my team stay grounded during the pandemic and help them by doing it on a vision board, an A3 three board, but also on their phone. To put together a college of what they wanted to achieve for each project, to really look at it every day and see the success and be driven towards that success and keep going and not fall into a depressive melancholy spell and just stay really, really grounded and really, really focused, which was really important. So they worked really well, and I noticed that they were becoming very popular, fun tools in magazines. But then I noticed there was a shift when they became, during the pandemic actually, more prominent, and to see what your life will be after the pandemic. And also it was talking about work as well, so it wasn't just a personal thing. So I use them a lot. And I also use them in film festivals because putting your dreams of film festivals up is really important.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So what are you working on right now? What are your projects that are on your plate right now?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
So we have some really exciting films that are touring the circuit. And at this moment in time when we're talking, the Oscar campaigns are in full swing because the Oscars are in March next year. So right now I've got six, seven films which are currently competing for Oscar nomination, which is quite exciting. And two of them qualified by winning the Oscar Qualifying Award at two festivals, one in Chicago, one in New York, which is really exciting. And all the other ones qualified by having theatrical run, which is also great.
I've got a feature film in there and also the rest of them are short films from South Africa, UK and USA. So that's quite a lot of time in that now because I've got to keep getting the promo out there, get the reviews out there, get the film seen, put the link out. And also film festivals are happening 24/7. And actually a film of mine which was shot here in Dallas that I represented has done really well, and we've actually just won at the Oscar qualifying St. Louis Film Festival in Missouri, the Best Inspirational Film Award and $5,000. So that can go towards the Oscar campaign.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Congratulations.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Thank you. So yeah, very exciting.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So one last question. Where can people find you on the internet?

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
The best place is Instagram and my website. Instagram is @rebekahfilmdoctor, I'll spell that, that's R-E-B-E-K-A-H-F-I-L-M-D-R. And the website is thefilmfestivaldoctor.com.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Thank you.

Dr. Rebekah Louisa Smith:
Thank you.