Adrian Lurie: YouTube Masterclass

Our interview of Adrian Lurie for “The Creative Influencer” podcast is available today for download on iTunes, Spotify, and premier platforms everywhere. Adrian is co-founder of Dragonfruit Media, a video production and YouTube agency.

Adrian discusses current YouTube engagement best-practices, with an eye to how the most engaging content bridges a curiosity gap for the audience through storytelling. This is a masterclass from a YouTube expert on how influencers—or really anybody—can make their YouTube page better and build an audience as a result.

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A transcript of the episode follows:

Jon Pfeiffer:
I'm joined today by Adrian Laurie. Welcome to the podcast.

Adrian Lurie:
Thanks so much for having me.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Adrian works for a company called Dragonfruit Media. And according to your website, it helps businesses and creators maximize engagement on YouTube. But what is Dragonfruit Media and exactly what do you do?

Adrian Lurie:
That's a great question. Dragonfruit Media is at its core, a YouTube agency. We like to say it's pretty corny, but we like to say that we are making the best content in the world to make the world a better place. And so, as the description you read mentions, we work with businesses and creators in order to use essentially organic and original content that is educational and entertainment driven to reach audiences, expand that reach, offer new value and basically grow your audience and therefore grow your overall value.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Yeah. So this is basically going to be a tutorial from a YouTube expert on how influencers or really anybody could make their YouTube page better and build an audience as a result. So what is your position Dragonfruit?

Adrian Lurie:
I am the co-founder and creative director.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And how did this past start?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, so my background is in psychology theater and screenwriting, and I always knew that there was something special about storytelling, and I always felt that one of the key purposes of storytelling was education and education through inspiration. And so I actually spent two years with the peace Corps after college working as a teacher in the Dominican Republic.
And I think when I came back to LA and I was thinking about entertainment and media and that sort of work, it felt like there could be a really great way to synthesize content with education. And so I worked with an SEO agency for a little bit, and they obviously, did something that's done very often in written content in blog, writing, and articles. But I saw there was a big opportunity if or doing this with video and realized that a lot of the philosophies around content marketing could actually be applied to more artistic or story focused or story centric, narrative focused, video content. And so that's what we started doing. We started making for people and helping people tell their story and helping people educate and inspire and offer value through video content. And then Dragonfruit was born

Jon Pfeiffer:
And we'll get down in the weeds on how to make better stories, but you call it the low hanging optimization fruit. There were four tips that make perfect sense when you think about them, but I wanted to go through them quickly with you, first is fix your about page. What about that?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, this is a really subtle one and this is something I think this would be fall under the category of sort of channel hygiene, right? The about page is often the second place that people go to find out what your channel is about and why they should subscribe to your channel. So there's that journey in and of itself, right? There is someone visits a channel page. And one of the first things they do is they go to the about page to figure out, should I subscribe to this person?
So if you're subscribed, if you're about page is blank, you've now just often missed the very first touch point with a potential new subscriber. The other thing about the about page is if you actually, if you go and search your channel, for example, and as opposed to besides just the videos that come up in the search page, you'll see channels appear in the search page, right in YouTube. And it says the name of the channel and directly below it, it shows the very first sentence of the about copy. So it is a great opportunity in at least two different areas to get that sort of top of funnel engagement for potential new subscribers,

Jon Pfeiffer:
Tip two was shorten your titles. Why?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah. Once you get above 53 characters on a YouTube title, you're going to see that little ellipsis at the end. It's going to cut off the rest of the title. This is something that a shocking amount of channels aren't always thinking about. And you often see titles that will sort of start to set up the meat of the title in the first, in the beginning of it, for example, Interview with Adrian Lurie colon, and then exactly maybe what it's about. You've now basically cut off the majority of the actual value you're hoping to communicate through the title by sort of taking too many characters up on just kind of giving the context.
So it's important to lead with value, get as much value as you can in those, in those 53 characters. And the only other thing I'll say about that is we're now seeing, 70, 80% almost of all YouTube watch time coming from mobile. So you have to imagine, I mean, if you really are committed to growing a channel, you have to be thinking about what is my channel and what do my videos, what do my titles look like on a phone?
And that's going to be even more important that with the small text and the very few number of characters that are on that iPhone title, you're communicating the value and really showing people why they should click on your video.

Jon Pfeiffer:
It makes perfect common sense, but get a better mic. We hate crappy audio, but what would you say is a good mic that people could use?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people have probably heard of Rode Microphones. I think Rode is a great company they have a lot of very affordable options for especially people that are starting out. If you are a little more developed in your sort of content journey, you're looking for a really top of the line microphone, I'd have to say Sennheiser makes the best of the best. It's what they use in Hollywood. It's what I'd recommend if you're looking for the absolute top up notch, that quality. And the last thing I'll say is if you are primarily doing video content, we recommend a directional mic as opposed to an omnidirectional mic. So for example, for a podcast, you might want an omnidirectional mic where it's recording from all different directions, but for video content, it's best to have a directional or like a boom. You may have heard of that. That kind of is pointing directly at the subject and can best record the audio.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So our last tip for the low hanging optimization is to organize videos into playlists. What's the advantage of that?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah. So the YouTube algorithm is paying attention to watch time. A lot of people know this, but that means essentially the longer you can keep people watching your videos or staying on your channel, the more valuable your channel is to YouTube. The more likely YouTube is to promote your channel organically to new viewers. So one of the great ways to increase watch time on your channel is by organizing your videos into playlists. And so this basically means finding the videos that offer similar values or about similar topics, organizing them into playlists.
That means when someone clicks on that video, they're going to see in the top right corner of their screen, the rest of the videos in that playlist, if you don't do that, someone watches your video and what do they see on the right hand of your screen? They see a bunch of other suggestions from other channels, so that will still happen no matter what, they'll see the suggested videos from other channels, but this allows you to get basically an automatic next up priority for them to watch another one of your videos, as opposed to someone else's. And ideally, if they organized well in that they are all offering similar value, then you're thinking about, okay, if this viewer clicked on this video, because it promised them X value. And the next video in that playlist offers a similar value. You've already got a viewer who is significantly more likely to watch that next video than any other viewer, because you know, they've already made the decision to click on the first one.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Is there a limit on the number of playlists that you can have on your page?

Adrian Lurie:
There's a limit, I think you can add up to 12 publicly on your channel, but I don't think there's a limit to the number you can have total, but you can only have 12 be visible on your channel. We recommend adding, making a bunch of playlists with fewer numbers of videos. So sometimes people make a playlist and they've got like 50 videos in there, but that can often be a turnoff in terms of sort of the viewer journey. They may click on one video and then they see there's 50, 49 other videos in that playlist. It's a little overwhelming. They might okay. Maybe I'll move to somewhere else because I'm not really about to sit and watch what if there's just four or five and they all cover something that's really interesting that viewer, they may sit there for the next hour or 30 minutes or so, watch all five of those videos that you've just now added a ton value to your channel by doing that.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So we're going to shift gears now, we're going to go to the meat of what you help your clients do. We've touched on it. That is what is video optimization. I did some research that there are 500 hours of YouTube videos uploaded every minute, which translates to 720,000 hours of video every day. So now, how do you optimize your video? Where do you start? So somebody's going to pick out your video over one of the 720,000 hours of other content.

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, certainly. There's sort of two pieces of this. You can think of it in most, in sort of generalist terms as extra video and intra video. So first you need to get someone to click, right? And this is essentially going to be your title and your thumbnail. Then once they're inside the video, you can do a host of things to optimize for retention, get them to watch to the end. These are the things-

Jon Pfeiffer:
Let me interrupt just a second. Now what, before we leave the title and the thumbnails. What are some of the best practices?

Adrian Lurie:
The most important thing is having a good idea, and this is really hard to quantify, but if you don't have a great idea, it's going to be really hard to have a great title and thumbnail. And the way we think about this is something we call audience focused content, basically everything starts with your audience and it ends with your audience. So when we go about optimizing, coming with a host of new video concepts for one of our clients, the first thing we do is we build out a comprehensive holistic viewer persona. Who is this person? What are their demographics? What are their psychographics? We're thinking about their pain points, their aspirations, their values, what are they going on YouTube to try and accomplish? What problems are they going on YouTube to solve? Once we can really understand that we develop a clear value proposition for the channel as a whole.
So what is the core value that your channel offers as a whole? From there we extend to content buckets, content buckets are basically categories, of video ideas that you could come up with. And then finally, within each content bucket, you can start coming up with video concepts, in our opinion, based on our philosophy, if you don't do that prep work to figure out who is the audience, what's the value you're off, how does that translate into content categories? And then what are the con, it's going to be hard to come up with a great idea, cause you're going to think, well, I can make video about this. I can make a video about that. I can this idea, this idea, but the point is, who are you speaking to? What value are you offering them? And then how do you make a fantastic idea that person would be very excited about. So that's the first slash first 10 steps before-

Jon Pfeiffer:
Have you do this to you storyboard it out on a whiteboard? Or how do you do this?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, I mean, our company is fully remote. So this look, in practice, this looks like we throw together a presentation that we go through over Zoom that we walk through with a client and we kind of get very aligned on here's what we think, here's what we're understanding based on your, who you are as a creator, what your brand looks like right now, where you want to go, who the audience is. And then of course, we synthesize that with their aspirations and exactly what direction they want to take the channel.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So you've done that step. There is in the materials that I was reading. You had a section called how YouTube wins and well, actually I'll let you summarize it, what do you mean by that?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, I mean, I think it's easy to get caught up in the idea that the YouTube algorithm is this black box that, we can't possibly understand, but if you really think about YouTube as a company with profit margins and marketing strategies and all these things there, it's very intentional. The YouTube algorithm actually wants something, YouTube wants something. And so it's not as much that we are just at the whims of the YouTube gods. But rather if you help YouTube win, YouTube will help you win. And YouTube wants people to spend as much possible time on the platform that's pretty much it. And so the way you do that is through, as we talked about before, people click on your video and then watching it for as long as possible.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Yeah. So there were some very specific tips you had on session start, average percentage view, session continues on how that's important to YouTube, can you walk us through that?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, absolutely. Session start is the holy click, as we talk about measured by click through rate and the content of that is the thumbnail and the title, right? So there are a host of ways to optimize the thumbnail and the title. We can go into the specifics there. Yeah, actually. Okay. Yeah.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So, I mean, I'm looking at, let me take a step back, because the listeners are in two categories. One are people who have been on YouTube a long time and are familiar with a lot of these things. And then there's the second category of people that are kind of starting out that want to, that they're not starting from scratch, but they're really starting from scratch. So these things are all pretty important.

Adrian Lurie:
Absolutely. Absolutely. So the first thing about title and thumbnails is all of the generalist advice needs to be filtered through again, your channel specific target audience and value proposition. There is not always going to be a catch all rule that applies to every channel equally. However, there are definitely some best practices for a thumbnail. It is pretty much across the board that including a human face in your thumbnail is going to increase the probability that a human person is going to click on that video. If the person is smiling in that picture or at least making an emotional expression of some kind that also increases the probability, we sometimes talk about thumbnail real estate, right? So you want to think about how much of your thumbnail is dedicated to specific purposes, generally the bigger the faces, and this can be sort of counterintuitive, but generally the bigger the faces, the better chance you're going to have with someone getting a click.
And if you look at a lot of the biggest channels on YouTube and you look at their thumbnails, a person's face is taking up a huge amount of that thumbnail. And so that's, that's sort of number one. Number two is using text to create some kind of indicator to the viewer around the story or the value in the video. So sometimes this is very obvious. Sometimes people just put the same text in the title as the thumbnail, we tend to avoid that. We think of again, all of this as valuable real estate. So if you're, for example, putting the same text in your thumbnail that you have in your title in a way you're sort of wasting some of your real estate by putting the same thing twice.
Another way to think about this is we sort of have come up with this model for the 32nd thumbnail title journey, which is that or not 32nd, excuse me, like half a second journey. So basically what we understand is that a viewer, when they're on their brows page, they're on the YouTube, first they look at the thumbnail, right? It's the most visually stimulating thing. They then look to the title to give context to the thumbnail. They then look to the thumbnail a second time with the new information or the new context they've received through the title. So if you think about this, it actually informs how you want to design each of these things. The thumbnail should immediately inspire some level of tension or conflict or story narrative tension ideally, that's the most important. That's why having a face is really important there because you're sort of anthropomorphizing, kind of whatever your video is about, the title then should be really value driven.
You generally want to have the title be as explicit as possible in terms of the value your viewer's going to get from the video. So you'll notice a lot of like how to X or how I X videos that do really well and simple, but it just states very clearly. Here's what the video's going to teach you and then make sure that your thumbnail is related enough to your title. So that when they're seen now kind of in conjunction as one thing, it is even more exciting than the first time they saw the thumbnail. So channel that does this well is just channel Veritasium. They have these thumbnails that are often highly intriguing, but a little confusing. They sort of make you think, what is that? What is that thing, right? Or it'll have a term like the curtain paradox, right? And you're like, what's the curtain paradox?
I don't know what that is, but then the title says something like why you can't sleep at night. And now all of a sudden, I think, okay, I'm going to learn. Here's about why I can't sleep at night is the value. The current paradox has something to do with it. And the guy in the thumbnail looks like he just had his mind blown. So I'm going to click on this to find, because I've got story, I've got value, I've got curiosity gap. So that's yeah, I think a good example.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So you get somebody to click on the videos, how important is the first 30 seconds?

Adrian Lurie:
The first 30 seconds generally makes or breaks the video, especially in terms of average percentage viewed. So we call this the dreaded hockey stick, right? Which is that in the first 30 seconds, you will see a rapid decline in the percentage of people that stay on your video. And this is natural. It doesn't mean that your video's boring. It doesn't mean that, you are unattractive or you're not saying something valuable. It just means that at least half of people that click on a video immediately think, okay, now I want to watch something else.
So your goal as a creator should be, how can I reduce that drop off as much as, or attrition as much as possible for that first 30 seconds? Because the people that stay through the 30 seconds are much more likely than anyone else, right, to watch to the end. And so the more people you can keep through that first 30 seconds, then the more people you're going to have stick through to the very end, and that's going to overall increase your average percentage view. So generally, and YouTube will tell you this also, but generally you want 70% is a decent benchmark after 30 seconds, if 70% of your viewers are still watching, that's pretty good. We shoot for, by the end of the video to have around, if you cannot, by the end of the video, how have about 50% of people still watching at the end of the video you have done very well. You have made a video that is highly engaging to, to,

Jon Pfeiffer:
And there are analytics. That's a lot of people know about it, but a lot of people don't about where you can tell the viewer, how do you get to that?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, So if you go to the like top, right, you can click on your sort of channel logo. You can then from there, go to, into YouTube studio, in YouTube studio, there is an analytics page you can look at-

Jon Pfeiffer:
I think it's the third tab down.

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, I think so, and then in analytics and the page there's engagement tab and in the engagement tab, you will see your retention for any given video

Jon Pfeiffer:
Sliced and diced. It's pretty granular.

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, it is. I think it's definitely important. There's a little see more tab. If you're looking at a specific video and the retention graph, there's a small, see more tab. It's definitely important. I'd say to open that up, otherwise you're looking at sort of a squashed version of the graph. It's pretty good. It lets you see certainly like every couple of seconds kind of what the percentage is, the dips and the spikes, at Dragonfruit we wanted to get a little more granular.
So we've actually created our own sort of proprietary systems where we actually scrape all that data and do a second by second analysis where we can actually see for any given second of the video, exactly what the increase or decreases. And then we flag for any increase that's above X percentage or decrease that's above X percentage. And then we kind of translate that into a transcript of the video. And we look at, okay, during this exact three and a half second period, this is what was being said, this is what was on screen. And we had an average drop off of this amount. Then we can say, okay, we shouldn't do that anymore. Or start to identify patterns there.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So how would you advise somebody if they're just going to look and try to figure this out themselves without getting too far into the graphs and how can you find the trends so you can correct whatever the problem is or do more of what's working well.

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, we break this down into three categories primarily. The first is momentum. So most of the time, if your video is not doing well with retention. And so, yeah, I mean the first step would be go check out the graph. If your video is around anywhere between five and 10 minutes and you're getting less than 50, 40, high forties, 50, low 50% retention, there's things you can do to improve for sure. Especially if you're getting down in like the twenties, the thirties, you definitely want to be working on this.
So most of the time, if your video's getting low retention, it's one of these three things. The first is momentum. This is basically if you think about the sequence of ideas or events in your video, so whether you're vlogging or you are just speaking into the camera or you're teaching, whatever it is, you want to make sure that your video is clearly building to a specific point the viewer is aware of, the viewer is conscious that there is a building up to a certain spot.
And people talk about this in film or TV all the time with like the three act structure and your sort of building up to the climax and the sort of the intersection of these two forces that you're waiting to see collide. It's very easy to think about it when you think about Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, but it can become a little more vague if we're talking about, an educational video or a tutorial video about how to optimize for YouTube, for example. But the key is based basically to immediately in the first 10 seconds, make it very clear what the essential question is that you are going to answer for your audience and then lay out your ideas in a sequence that doesn't fully answer the question until the end.
It gives them enough information to keep them engaged and to make them feel like they're really receiving value and genuinely, getting value from the video, but also always having that curiosity gap where, okay, but I haven't quite had that essential question answered that the video promised me. So that's momentum. If your videos lacking retention you're most often may just be a little bit of meandering in the video. You maybe set out a really clear value or essential question at the beginning of the video and you started answering it. And then you maybe sort of started going off on a tangent about something that may not be super related, or you kind of have this aside, and that often will reduce retention because people think this is no longer, I'm no longer in journey.
I'm no longer with this leading to this climax. So that's number one. Number two is what we call stimuli, which is the most, I think what people talk about most when they think about retention, this is just what can people see and what can people hear at any given moment in your video? So how are you using music? How are you using sound effects? How are you using transitions, text on screen, full screen animations? What colors are you using? How is your video being edited in terms of the actual, how are the shots cut? One of the big ways people lose retention is they have really long takes, especially if they're speaking directly into the camera, they'll just speak and speak and speak. And the video never zooms. It doesn't cut in closer.
There's no, none of the pauses are cut out. So there may be lots of ums and uhs, and pauses. And, by getting rid of all those things and cutting those out. Even if you don't add visuals or animations or slides or anything that can already increase retention. And then the very last one of the three categories is premise. And this one is a little harder to quantify, but basically when it ties back into this viewer session start conversation, someone clicked on your video. They did it for a reason. They were a human sitting at their computer and they saw your title at thumbnail. Your title thumbnail promised them something and they trusted you. They said, I'm going to give this click. I'm going to use my time to watch this thing, because it promised me something, if you don't deliver on what you promised that viewer, you have betrayed their trust and they will punish you for it, they will not be back. Exactly, exactly.
And so that's just basically at any given moment in your script, in your video, stop, ask yourself, am I still delivering on the promise of the premise, on the premise or the essential question or the key value that I promised my viewer with my title and thumbnail. And if you're not, that might be why people are clicking off.

Jon Pfeiffer:
And this is the perfect transition to the script writing, SOP, standard operating procedure you have as the first step, create a progression or transformation based story. What do you mean by that?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, when we think about the actual sort of nature of narrative or of story, it's necessarily temporal. It involves time, right? And when we say time with our conception of time, what we really mean is change because we know time doesn't really, maybe necessarily exist in the way we think about it. What's really happening is we want to see things change over a certain period of time. And that's really sort of at the core of story. And it's kind of why story works. There's this anticipation of change, but to do that, you have to kind of create the setup. And so when you are thinking about your script, you're outlining, or your writing, you want to make sure that one early on you are hinting at, or setting up some kind of transformation, some kind of evolution, in your story.
And if you're a person that makes videos about are purely educational, or you give math tips or tips on how to use a certain, you may be thinking this has nothing to do with my content. I don't tell stories. I teach people. And we would argue that if you are sitting down and speaking into the camera, you are telling a story, or at least if you were, you may be able to engage your audience a lot better and reach a lot more people. And so it doesn't have to be a story in the classic sense in that you have a protagonist and they're going on this journey, right. You're not necessarily literally telling an anecdote, but you want to make sure that there is tension. So if you are giving a tutorial on mathematics-

Jon Pfeiffer:
Yeah let's use math as an example.

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah. Cause I think that's a traditionally difficult.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Tell me a math story.

Adrian Lurie:
Right. So if you are making this video about math, when we're talking about turning that into a story, it's more about the structure of your video and how to use the structure of story and apply that to your video about math. And the structure of story is initially there is a setup with some kind of curiosity gap, will, Luke Skywalker destroy the death star, will Luke Skywalker find his father, these questions right at the beginning. So the first piece of advice here is, start out with a really intriguing, big question for your viewer. And this can be as long as you know that, to answer it within the video. Right. And then as I said before, you put you introduce plot points.
So Luke finds Yoda and then he finds Harrison Ford, Chewbacca. And so you have these plot points, these moments where you can feel that we're getting closer to the climax, to the moment where the essential question is answered. And the point of tension is resolved. You could do this with math. You start with a big question that feels intriguing. And then you start adding in, you start giving answers, sort of bread crumbs as we call them along the way. Now, anytime you can introduce metaphors actual anecdotes, perhaps there's a way in which this mathematics theory applies to real life, and peppering in these is also really important, but you should, again, just clearly be sort of laying out these things in a sequential order that leads to sort of that climactic moment when the question is answered. And that should basically be the end of the video. We don't have act threes in YouTube videos.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Yeah. Which leads to the outro. There's the intro and the outro. What advice do you have for wrapping up a video?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, don't, that's generally my advice. It's another thing that's a bit counterintuitive. We tend to, especially when telling a story want to give some sort of concluding or wrapping up, or summarizing is one of the most common things that people do in YouTube videos in the last 10, 20 seconds, they summarize everything they said already said in the whole YouTube video and what you see this across the board, when you do this, your retention plummets, the second, the viewer feels even has the slightest inclination that the video's ending they click off. So generally for an outro, I recommend you if offering any concluding sentences, they should offer some kind of new value, and as a final tip, maybe something like that, where you're at least providing some kind of new value or a new intriguing thing, but then as soon as possible, get to a CTA.
So either we pretty much, this can depend on how the size of your channel, how far along you are in your journey of growing your channel. But generally it's going to be subscribe to my channel, or what we most often do is click on another video, keep watching, hey, if you like this video and you want to watch another about the same thing, check out this video on XYZ. And it's important that you really put time and thought and care into these final CTAs, because if you can get someone-

Jon Pfeiffer:
CTA call to action.

Adrian Lurie:
Sorry. Yes, CTA call to action. Because if you can get someone to watch, even one more of your videos, you've now doubled their session time, like 200% increase on their session time. YouTube is keeping track of these numbers. And as you mentioned, when there's hundreds of thousands of hours uploaded every day, small differences like this, they really matter. Algorithm is really noticing these things.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Yeah, so prediction time, where do you predict YouTube will be in six months or a year or three years?

Adrian Lurie:
I think YouTube will continue to double down on short form video content first of all. So as many people know they've introduced YouTube shorts as basically their TikTok, Instagram reels competitor.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Yeah. So called snackable content.

Adrian Lurie:
Right snackable content. Yes. YouTube shorts is very much still sort of in the beta phase. It hasn't quite exploded in the way that Instagram reels and TikTok has, but I don't see any reason it won't. And so I think they will double down on working on that algorithm and figuring out how to guide more users organically onto the short speed. They have more active users than other than Facebook. They have more active users per month than any other social media platform on the planet. They have drastically higher number of watch time hours as compared to TikTok or Instagram reels. So they have the people and they have the watch time. It's just about, are they going to be able to funnel people into the shorts feed? And I believe that they'll figure it out.
Number two, I think they will. They've already been doing this a lot on the mobile app, but I think it will become increasingly more of a long term social media experience for users. So they rolled out the YouTube community posts. A lot of people are using YouTube community posts, but I think they'll probably be doubling down on that. A lot of users still haven't really caught on with it. So I'm sure they will continue, excuse me, continue to incentivize that for new users and make it more of a sort of Facebook experience where you actually have a consistent news feed that you're rolling through that has both community posts sort of tweet sized, written form as well as videos as well as images. And yeah, I mean, this is one of the reasons you've seen YouTube continue to dominate. I mean, they have continued to adapt and create more and more of a social media like experience as opposed to simply a video consumption experience.

Jon Pfeiffer:
So, is my last question, so where can people, if there want to work with you or get more information about your company, where can they find you on the internet?

Adrian Lurie:
Yeah, well, you can find us @dragonfruitmedia.co that's dot co not dot com. That's our website. You can find out about the services we offer, whether production or analytics and how we can work together. You can reach out through there. You can send you can anyone, if they're listening, can send me an email directly at Adrian @dragonfruitmedia.co. I'm happy to connect with you. And then finally, we actually set up a fun landing page with the podcast. So with creative influencers. So if you want to go to dragonfruitmedia.co/Pfeiffer, that's John's last name Pfeiffer .

Jon Pfeiffer:
Yeah, P F E I F F E R.

Adrian Lurie:
There it is. We actually have some free resources. Some of the resources that you mentioned today in the conversation, John YouTube script writing, five day email course on, a lot of the things that we talked about today, but going even more into detail and even including visuals and more tips and tricks. So if you want to go and to dragonfruitmedia.co/Pfeiffer, you can sign up to receive those free resources and yeah, hopefully they're valuable to some of the listeners.

Jon Pfeiffer:
Well, this was great, thank you. I'll come right back to you.

Adrian Lurie:
Absolutely. Thank you so much again for having me.

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